Cash Management costs in Italy

This topic has 10 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Danilo.

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- December 27, 2023 at 3:16 pm
- Quote
Patrick Kunz
Keymaster

Doing a cash management review for a client and checking the cash management costs of their local bank.
Pricing is significantly higher then other banks charge in other countries.

For sepa i would expect costs of 0,05-0,20 per transaction. For WIRE payments 5-15 euro per payment.

Is there a reason why it should be higher in Italy ?

thnx for the help here

Treasury for champions

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- January 5, 2024 at 3:27 pm
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Hans Dunnik
Participant

I believe it depends on relationship/negotiation (if at least your Italian bank is part of your global relationship bank..)…
For us we have an agreed European (Euro) agreed pricing structure, regardless of being Italy or for example Austria.
- January 5, 2024 at 4:55 pm
- Quote
Danilo
Participant

Hi,
I agree on the relationship/negotiation with the banks. Every script can cost below 0.20. Cross border payments (otuside SEPA) might cost 5 EUR.
- January 5, 2024 at 5:16 pm
- Quote
Patrick Kunz
Keymaster

Thanks Hans and Danilo for your replies.
I agree it should not be different to other countries and a matter of negotiation. A very odd and expensive quote from a global bank made me thing there might be some specials in Italian cash management.

This forum proves to be the perfect place to get answers and confirmation quickly 🙂

Treasury for champions
- January 25, 2024 at 2:31 pm
- Quote
Dijkstra
Participant

Our Italian subsidiary has a non resident EUR bank account in our Dutch Rabo NL notional cash pool benefiting from negotiated Rabo bank charges.
- January 25, 2024 at 2:44 pm
- Quote
Patrick Kunz
Keymaster

Hi Douwe,
good one! probably saves you money indeed.

Follow up question then: how do you deal with Tax payments which need to be done by local italian banks ?

Treasury for champions
- January 25, 2024 at 2:59 pm
- Quote
Dijkstra
Participant

Italians tax payments (F24 form) are executed by a local Italian bank, also used for some petty cash transactions and credit cards.
- February 13, 2024 at 5:36 pm
- Quote
Hans Dunnik
Participant

F24 via BNL (100% sub of BNP) and loaded via file upload in global portal (but took long time to develop the file upload process…)
I am interested how you are managing PagoPa payments in Italy ? We have hundreds of them per month… and this can’t be paid via SEPA but is really a local payment scheme with specific Qbill codes and references (aviso) and is currently all done manually in local BNL portal by Outsourced AP department.

Does anyone have setup where they can pay PagoPa via SAP or via TMS in an automated way ?
- February 14, 2024 at 11:02 am
- Quote
Patrick Kunz
Keymaster

F24 can be done via XML indeed with a special setup (and the receiving bank need to be able to accept them).
PagoPa via upload from TMS/File i have never seen. I know Unicredit is working on it but not yet finished.

PagoPa via a bank specific setup is working. Unicredit has a solution where they prepare it in their online banking tool and from there it can be approved/send to the tax authoristies. Better then doing it manually!

But again this will depend from bank to bank and their service offering.

Happy to hear other opinions here as well.

Same for Spain but that should be a different topic.

Treasury for champions
- May 31, 2024 at 3:53 pm
- Quote
Ciaran McMonagle
Participant
I don’t find Italy any more expensive than our other SEPA markets on a transaction basis. I would say that, unless it’s a standalone relationship with a global bank, pricing for SEPA should be consistent across SEPA markets where they have a local branch. Of course, you could hold an account elsewhere, but, in my experience, local accounts with your main or preferred global cash management bank make sense for any number of reasons – tax payments, payroll (depending on who your provider is….) and also KYC/AML – I have seen too many cases where customers question or assign risk factors to ‘offshore’ accounts (which, in the SEPA world seems crazy, but it happens more often than I like to see).

I guess RIBA is priced differently to SDD which might be one point of difference.

This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by Ciaran McMonagle.
- June 2, 2024 at 11:45 am
- Quote
Danilo
Participant

Hi Patrick,
interesting to hear that F24 can be done with XML. I had the impression that this is like a PDF presentation in the E-banking (with all the required tax codes).

There is another HR tax payment for “agenzia delle entrate” for which, you cannot even use the E-banking. It’s required to make the presentation directly in the tax portal.

In regard to PagoPA, there is this possibility of mass upload for CBILL, but as you know there are several PagoPA payment methods (customs, taxes, MAV, etc) and i wonder if all of them can be paid in the same way. For customs, i understand the account has to be connected to the customs authority to retrieve the money after presentation.

From my point of view, the implementation effort should correspond with the frequency of the payments.

Tax payments are the most difficult to automate via TMS + Bank and we probably never achieve 100% due to regulation like for “agenzia delle entrate” presentations.

Do you know any Fintech that is focusing on Tax payments? we found the same challenges in Poland for instance.

Thanks

Danilo